Curse

Luminarus · Mar 07, 2008, 07:03 AM // 07:03

Yes I dont play much TA, so if there are smiters there I didnt know, just know wat I see from RA, Obs and PVe.

Also, it may be a hex, but its a 0-4 hex. Say they max it out, thats 4 seconds out of it.

If the monk decides to remove it, they will probably take .5 of a second to notice it, 1 second to remove it (unless prevailed), and then .5+ aftercast delay. Thats 2 seconds where its prevented the monk from doing anything, as well as removing its ability to hex remove again for 7-12 seconds (depending on skill). Also if its echo'd then as soon as its off, put it up again. And considering Rip's buff, I highly doubt any decent necro wouldn't rip veil before using WoD.

Atrophy didnt get any love because its got less total up time, and it only removes their primary attribute, not ALL attributes... it would do little to warriors etc, whilst WoD can rip all offensive and defensive capability's off that character for 40% of the time (80% with echo).

Riotgear · Mar 07, 2008, 07:49 AM // 07:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

Notice how Atrophy doesn't see much if any play despite everyone saying it was such an "interesting" spell.

Wail of Doom has the potential to stop a melee dead in their tracks, something Atrophy doesn't.

I'm not sure how much of a use it'll be on monks and non-ele midliners, ask yourself what exactly you expect it to do. I'm not exactly sure what you'd be targetting for shutdown that loses that much efficiency from attribute decline that's that time-sensitive, and it's not really the kind of skill you can spam (or at least, it doesn't look like it is).

miskav · Mar 07, 2008, 08:35 AM // 08:35

First time i've ever seen WoD in a postive light.

Moloch Vein · Mar 07, 2008, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

I'm not sure how much of a use it'll be on monks and non-ele midliners, ask yourself what exactly you expect it to do.

Hum. A combination Strip Enchantment -> Mark Of Subversion -> SPIKE -> Wail of Doom should do a TA monk no good, shouldn't it?

Servant of Kali · Mar 07, 2008, 09:51 AM // 09:51

Whether WoD needs a slight nerf or not, the truth is - game needs skills like these. Skills like new WoD are fun to use, and effective if used correctly. Can be used offensively and defensively, and are proper elite versions of certain skills.

Look at Backfire and Empathy. These two skills are better than half of Mesmer elites. WoD should not be another Visions of Regret, an elite skills which is worse than non-elite skill.

Oh, and while I agree WoD is strong, comparing it to Blackout is not quite the same. First of all, you can't block (Hex Breaker) or remove Blackout (I don't count Don't Touch This). Second of all, with Blackout you can't cast any skills at all. With WoD, you can still use rez sig, you can still interrupt, you can still remove hexes and conditions, you can still use unlinked skills, and you can still use skills with some effect rather than no effect. Healing Signet will heal you for 62 instead of 128 (at 11 Tactics). That's 50% reduction, but It's not 90% reduction.
Again, I'm not saying WoD isn't strong, I'm just saying it's not elite ranger Blackout.

C2K · Mar 07, 2008, 10:20 AM // 10:20

Unlike Blackout, skills that don't require any attribute (such as rending touch, Grapple, Symbolic strike, etc.) or can function well without attributes(like Shock) are still useful. With Blackout.. well you can always use your weapon.

Servant of Kali · Mar 07, 2008, 10:59 AM // 10:59

I tried it without Arcane Echo and with it, and .. well it was good as is without AE

Patrick Smit · Mar 07, 2008, 11:27 AM // 11:27

I personally think u don't need arcane echo to make WoD effective, u know that a monk will likely cast WoH or ZB when near 50% health, just place it by then. Same when in larger teams (HA or GvG) just in concert with spikes. Or defensively when u see a spike coming.

frojack · Mar 07, 2008, 11:44 AM // 11:44

The mesmer buffs are interesting. Psychic Instability is a good change (although, 'skill' instead of 'spell' would also be a reasonable change), as is CoF. The Power Leak adjustment is good but it now needs a 15 second recharge.

More non-interrupt based disruption would be a good point of development in further updates in my oppinion.

The necro changes are really quite strong, though there are a few things that need looking at. The enchantment striping is way too strong now. Strip Enchantment really shouldn't scale to 2. It's way too strong on a 15 second recharge. Nice change besides that.
Rip Enchantment is also far too strong. It either needs more conditionality or a return of the health sacrifice. Enfeeble: Love it. However the duration is somewhat insane. With a 33% weapon mod it lasts forever. 20 seconds at 14 would be more appropriate. It's just looks way too strong when even a secondary */N can keep a melee target subdued indefinitely.
Weaken Armour is over-powered. The weakness buff, already makes for good melee control. A tool like this just makes Frenzy far more dangerous, which is bad for the game. Perhaps up the cost to 10 and remove the AoE, but keep the 1 second cast.
Wail Of Doom looks interesting. I haven't played it properly yet, but it looks quite under-costed. Up the Sac to 17% and the recharge to 15.
Foul Feast is awesome now! Too awesome to be honest. The concept is good but the recharge is abusive. Making conditions weaker is somewhat dubious, but completely crushing them is just bad. I'd consider upping the recharge to 6-8 seconds.

Also, if there are plans to continue improving Necro's and redesigning Blood magic say, then stuff like the big, spikable Life-steals need to go, or get the Ancestor's Rage treatment (non-stacking). Things like Angorodon's Gaze in it's current form are simply unacceptible. Life steal skills really shouldn't be stealing more than 60 health. Watching [APR] get rolled by a random, mindless B Spike is horrible...

The Fire Magic changes were good. You really made it too strong with all the buffs over the later half of 2007. These changes don't destroy the build but bring it back in-line. Mind Blast is barely affected, while Rodgort's is less ridiculous. Flame Djinns is more reasonable, but it could possibly now be returned to 33% speed safely.
The Orb change looks interesting. Still a bit dubious however. With the current level of interuption, 2 second spike skills really aren't practical. The Shock arrow change is ok. It's still worse off compared to the other conditional E-skills, but a good change regardless. Air still needs more work though. Chain Lightning, Windborne Speed, and Enervating could use a look. Especially considering the Enfeeble buffs.
The Melee ward recharge looks reasonable. As does the aftercast change. (I'd secretly like to see a 10e Foes but yeah ^_^).
The Frozen Burst change is good. The recharge is now more reasonable.

I'm glad Guardian took a slight hit. An interrupt on it should have always been more significant. Mend Touch still needs a hit though...

Gash is more usable now. Like it, though sword needs more work. Galrath/Silverwing could use more interesting effects than mere +damage, Quivering Blade has no purpose, and the Pure Strike+clone skills are also pretty useless since attacking while not in a stance has never been advantageous. Theres room for adding more finesse to sword (in the way Disarm did for example).
Also with the condition removal buffs, sword has been marginalised even further. YAA is still nowhere to be seen for much the same reason.
Lion's Comfort is pretty solid, however I just don't like the fact that it can't be used effectively with Signet of Malice (Not a huge deal though...).
Also, want to buy a Magehunter Strike buff (always unblockable, 5 sec recharge. Or perhaps a complete functionality change. It's really not that good right now).

Pin Down is now much more playable. However, I agree With Riotgear, it may just push Magebane everywhere. Not a huge problem at the moment, but it could certainly become one (it's not like the cost nerf did much to the skill. Time will tell...).

Wounding Strike is certainly better, but it's still not that great to be honest. not in the face of Pious Assault that is. Nice adjustments to the Tincan spike though.

A Rage is a good change. The skill is still strong but it doesn't deal way over 100 damage anymore which is good. Could still come down bt 10 at 14 though but whatever really.
Soothing Memories is nice but it's not going to take the place of Weilder's anytime soon. Mending Grip is really the one to improve.

Just like I initially thought, a solid update. The necro stuff needs a lot of watching but it's really nice to see the willingness to redesign stuff beyond simply shifting numbers around.

Whammo · Mar 07, 2008, 12:03 PM // 12:03

This update looks really good. Rip seems somewhat powerfull though, and those stupid ranger changes need to be reverted (power shot/pen. shotx2).

TheOneMephisto · Mar 07, 2008, 04:55 PM // 16:55

WoD is possibly one of the most interesting Necro skills in the current form and I think that it should stay in some way.

However, I do believe that it's a little too powerful in it's current form and a small limitation would be nice. I like someone's idea of making it end after the hexed character casts a spell targeting an ally (allowing it to affect 1 ally spell), which would make it a little easier on monks.

red orc · Mar 07, 2008, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Overall a good update. You fixed the glyph bug which is good.
I dont know why you had to kill the only viable damage ele template and one of the only 2 templates of derv.
The problem with the derv was the shadow step and not the derv skills. Why did you have to kill the derv ? Please return the Belt dervish and do something like this: "your other skills are disabled for 3..0 sec" on each shadow step skill and you remove the spike ability form the non sin characters and provide some reasonable nerf to return monks.

The sword warrior has a chance of making a comeback now.

Theivery and cry on a mes looks like ton of fun now.

wuzzman · Mar 07, 2008, 05:53 PM // 17:53

bloodspiking isn't the problem with blood magic. It's the fact that it serves very few purposes outside of the caster spike and it really is a RA/AB/PVE line. You could buff the support aspects of it, but I don't see how you can say buff order of pain and not get ranger spikes and so forth. You can move more skills away from blood into soul reaping and change what they do like with foul fest, but you run into the question of do people really want to run up against a gvg ready midline necro. In which case that answer is most likely no.

Burton2000 · Mar 07, 2008, 05:58 PM // 17:58

But I think with the change of WoD anet are trying to make necro a more balanced class that could fit into a balanced build like a mesmer can.

valence · Mar 07, 2008, 06:09 PM // 18:09

WoD's numbers are off, but it has potential to be a good skill for the game. An elite gale that serves many purposes, except the recharge being wayyyyy to sick.

Neo-LD · Mar 07, 2008, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Wail of Doom has the potential to stop a melee dead in their tracks, something Atrophy doesn't.

I'm not sure how much of a use it'll be on monks and non-ele midliners, ask yourself what exactly you expect it to do.

Eh, you could use it as a spike stopper (on melees or casters), but it looks like it will be much better if used offensively in the same manner as Diversion. Monks cant really save spikes with 0 attributes. It might be a *little* too poweful, but Im willing to overlook that since as others have said, the game needs more skills like this. Im glad ANet took Gus's suggestions to heart regarding Necros.

Morgoth the dark · Mar 07, 2008, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Eh, you could use it as a spike stopper (on melees or casters), but it looks like it will be much better if used offensively in the same manner as Diversion. Monks cant really save spikes with 0 attributes. It might be a *little* too poweful, but Im willing to overlook that since as others have said, the game needs more skills like this. Im glad ANet took Gus's suggestions to heart regarding Necros.

well infuse on 0 healing, still can save (heals for 100% i guess, that's aprox 300 hp), so... well it's annoying but not too bad.

Zabe · Mar 07, 2008, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morgoth the dark

well infuse on 0 healing, still can save (heals for 100% i guess, that's aprox 300 hp), so... well it's annoying but not too bad.

Yes, but spiritbond on 0 spec?

And 300hp infuse and 20 heal WoH (0 spec ^^) won't save you from BSpike

Winstar · Mar 07, 2008, 08:24 PM // 20:24

also amusing

2 headbutt warriors 1 necro with foul feast and plauge signet

RiKio · Mar 07, 2008, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Im can see WoD and Foul Feast being used in the new meta. This skills are great.Also, I think there will be a new type of Worriars based in Mokele Smash IMO

I have been testing a new build based on WoD in Arenas, and it was damm funny. Imagine a lolsin striking for 13 damage. Am I dreaming ? NO. I am using [skill]Wail of Doom[/skill] on that lolsin!.

Cmon, try it, it is fun